{Holy visit. As Uganda prepares to host Pope Francis later this month, Tabu Butagira spoke to the Italian Ambassador Domenico Fornara on what message he expects the Holy Father to deliver. The Holy See, which the Pope heads, is a sovereign State circumscribed by Rome, the capital of Italy. As such, the Vatican is represented in Uganda, like elsewhere in the world, by a Papal Nuncio.
In the interview, Amb Fornara explores how Italians in Uganda have been gripped by the local frenzy about the Pope’s visit. He says they are talking with Ugandans to leverage their experience in providing security to the pontiff.
}
{{How would you describe the Uganda-Italy bilateral relations?}}
With no doubt, excellent. We are good partners of Uganda ever since a long time … our contribution is through bilateral governmental aid through the European Union [and the great contribution of Italy’s private sector donors, civil society and religious communities. Our bilateral contribution to Uganda over the years is well over Euros100 million (Shs378b).
We don’t want to highlight our contribution only in quantitative terms [but also] the qualitative impact of development aid. Money sometimes cannot be used in very efficient ways, and sometime smaller contributions can have an extremely valuable impact on populations, on the economy [and] in the organisation of local communities.
{{
What are Italy’s main interests in Uganda and how have these evolved over time?}}
Italy’s presence in Uganda [is] a system; we have been present since the early 1900s. I always look at [Luigi Amedeo, the Duke of] Abruzzi in 1906, one of the most important explorers from Italy who explored Rwenzori in 1906. We have had a great number of religious missionaries who are very active in developing mutual understanding, dialogue in especially the remote areas of Uganda. After Uganda’s independence (in 1962), a bilateral relations [was established and] we have given very valuable contribution to the government of Uganda that I think has also been appreciated because of our sensitivity to local traditions, local independence, to ownership. This is very much important; ownership of the development process and we have been concentrating in specific thematic areas – health sector and in specific regions that needed more attention, for example Karamoja.
{{The Pope is due to visit in November, and this has excited Ugandans. Is it a similar experience for Italians residing in the Pearl of Africa?}}
I think the visit of the Pope is an extremely important event. Before talking about the excitement, which of course is there, it is important to state that Pope Francis is carrying on a highly appreciated moral action both of religious nature, but also political nature. He is certainly one of the highest standing figures today. We have seen him in New York (the Pope visited the United States last month), lately we have seen him in lots of occasions delivering very constructive messages and doing so by example. This, I think, makes a huge difference. He is constantly giving the example with his own daily action, with his attitude, with the way he interacts with people of all origins, from all social levels. The fact that he chose Uganda as one of the three destinations of his first visit to Africa, I think, is very significant. Uganda is a country where Christianity or Catholicism is very important. But I think he is also coming here because Uganda is playing an important role in the region. So, it is a recognition of Uganda’s role.
Of course, I see that Ugandans are very happy to receive the Pope; I can read it in the newspapers; I watch the people on the streets. I talk to my friends in Uganda and everybody is excited and among the Italian community, there is equally excitement. Of course, Italians are averagely more used to seeing the Pope because he lives close to us. Nevertheless, I think that there is certainly a lot of excitement [among] the Italian Catholics environment and a lot of curiosity, positive and favourable curiosity, from those who may be are not religious but recognise nevertheless the Pope as a very important moral and political leader.
{{How are those Italians you are referencing preparing for the Pope’s visit?}}
The organisation of the papal visit is a matter of concern of the Papal Nuncio (Ambassador); so, I presume he is working round the clock because organising a papal visit is as much as it is for an ambassador to organise the visit of his president of the Republic. Having done that once, I know that it is an enormous amount of work. So, all this is on the Nuncio’s shoulders. As the Italian Ambassador, if ever there is need for us to help [with] something of our competence, we are more than happy to help. We had talked with Ugandan authorities about the papal visit and we might provide some advice eventually on the security because, of course, Italy has a long experience of dealing with the security of His Holiness.
We will be happy to offer our advice, we are doing it, we will be happy to work with the Ugandan authorities over the issue. When it comes to the local population, I have talked about how we are not really organising anything Italian. There are preparations within the religious, those going to a certain church or may be are organising in that church, but I think it is something the Italians are doing with Ugandans because religion is not a matter of nationality; religion is something that belongs to your personal beliefs; so, it doesn’t matter with whom, it doesn’t have to be someone from your country. So I think Italian Catholics are probably sort of getting ready with their Ugandan Catholic friends to participate in some of the events that will take place during the Pope’s visit.
{{The Pope is the sovereign of the Vatican, but all that most ordinary Ugandans know is that Rome (where the Pontiff stays) is in Italy. How would you explain to a lay Ugandan the difference between Italy and the Holy See?}}
The Holy See is an enclaved country. We have other Republics in central Italy. The Holy See is an absolutely independent State with which we have, of course, excellent relations. The Holy See happens to be at the centre of Rome, but it has its boundaries, it has its administration, its independence. We have a lot of mutual agreements … giving visas for people going to the Holy See. The Holy See uses the Euro currency, thanks to a bilateral agreement with Italy.
But we are two independent states and two heads of States; one is the Pope from the Holy See side and the other one is the Italian President (Sergio Mattarella). I can understand that due to the fact that Catholicism is the religion of many Italians for the history of the Vatican state having controlled two centuries ago a good proportion of today’s Italy, to the fact that the Pope is in Rome, sometime there is confusion. But we are two countries, happy to be two countries, happy of our very good relations and with our two happy administrations.
{{Could you share your thoughts on, indeed your expectation of, the issue(s) that the Holy Father should raise while in Uganda?}}
I think it will be a very important gathering not only for those who are religious and who are happy to see the Pope as the head of Catholicism. It will be one further occasion in which Pope Francis will provide very important messages of positive cooperation between people, between states of a mutual understanding, of respect, of hope, in a continent like Africa that, of course, needs a lot of support. Uganda has gone a long way since its early years of independence that were more troubled. But other countries need strong messages, need hope; need to see the light at the end of the tunnel because other countries in Africa are still suffering.
When we talk about countries, we are not talking about an abstract, we are talking about people in the country, we are talking about families that are suffering because they don’t have security, they do not have food, because they don’t have democracy yet. I think that the visit of the Pope to Africa will be very important for delivering message in this direction. And I am very happy to see that he chose in this area of Africa countries that are very significant; Kenya is a country that today has a quite a very good record in development but still is very much touched by security issues and by its exposure to the crises in the Horn of Africa.
Uganda is a country that has gone through very difficult periods in the past and has struggled to acquire control of its territory in granting security to citizens that is now very much engaged in its growth and in helping stabilisation and integration of the region. Uganda also needs hope for that. And the Central African Republic is another country that is suffering.
So I think that if I should sort of summarise the message that the Pope could deliver, it’s probably hope; hope both in the perspectives of how hope is seen by those who have faith in religion and hope also for those who have apolitical view of the impact of his words and let me stress once again that the example he is providing.
On Uganda – Italy bilateral relations
International relations. Also in the interview, Ambassador Fornara explores the “excellent” bilateral relations between Uganda and Italy, the growing investments and commerce and why Italy’s money is most impactful.
{{
Would you highlight what you consider Italy’s key contribution to Uganda’s development?
}}
We are naturally mutually interested in economic cooperation. Italian companies have historically been present for the development of Uganda. We have some big enterprises which have helped in infrastructure development of Uganda but I would also like to highlight the role of small and medium enterprise (SMEs) [that] are at the heart of the economic system of Italy.
Last year, commercial exchanges rose by 18 per cent. Italian companies are interested in business sectors in which they grant know-how and technology to Ugandans to help Ugandan companies increase their own output and business procedure.
The Business Club of Italia, [comprising] Italian companies based in Uganda, is an excellent pivotal facility for dialogue between the enterprises and the Ugandan and Italian governments.
{{Italy supported and relieved Uganda of about $110m under the Highly Indebted Poor Countries Initiative (HIPC). Are you satisfied with Uganda’s progress after the debt relief?}}
This is a very good question and this is a very sensitive issue for Italy. Italy has been at the forefront of the HIPC initiative. There were different degrees of cancellation and Italy embraced, by definition, 100 per cent cancellation of the debt to most countries, whereas other countries canceled around 90 per cent. Italy has been very much pushing on this issue because we felt that the debt some countries had was unreasonable, unsustainable, and unfair sometimes due to economic international mechanisms that date years back. Most of all, it was absolutely impossible to leave countries with such high amounts of debt because they would never be able to pay back and there was a wall, more than a hurdle, between them and the increasing of commercial and economic relations with other countries. So, it was also in our economic and commercial interests to develop this initiative in order to let the countries to have an opportunity to exchange with us.
So we were very much happy to have signed the agreement with Ugandan authorities and ever since, we have been proven right because relations with Uganda grew steadily. [Trade] figures for last year were very much impressive and we get [to] concentrate on development aid. And I think we have contributed around Euros50 million (Shs189 billion) for the last year of our development cooperation, as [our] government aid. You must add to that private contribution, civil societies, which are Italian. These were funds channeled 60 per cent to the health sector. I inaugurated with Her Excellency, the First Lady (Janet Museveni), in July a project for staff housing for the local health facilities in all districts of Karamoja. Then we will probably inaugurate another project for the hospital of Gulu in the coming weeks. Then other shares were dedicated to agricultural or food security sector and the social sector in general.
DAILY MONITOR
Leave a Reply